Episode 2

Reflecting on a Jesuits Journey

Transcript

Speaker1: From the Loyola Quinlan School of Business. You're listening to the Q Talks podcast. 

Al Gini: Hello. My name is Al Gini, and I'm a professor of business ethics at the Quinlan School of Business, Loyola University of Chicago. It is my great pleasure to have as my guest today Reverend Dr. Jerome Overpeck, S.J., better known to everyone on campus as Father Jerry, the much sought after chaplain at Water Tower Campus. Father Jerry, thank you for dropping by today. 

Jerry Overbeck: You're welcome. Happy to be here. 

Al Gini: At this point in our lives, Jerry, we're both glad to be anywhere. That's the reality of it all. Now, before we get into particulars about your role, your job, and your calling as a chaplain counselor, this is a big year for you, isn't it? You enter the Jesuits in 1964. You were ordained in 1974. Which makes you how long on the job? A long time. How long is it? 

Jerry Overbeck: Priest 56 years. 

Al Gini: I thought 46? 

Jerry Overbeck: 46 years as a priest.  

Al Gini: 46 CE. You took all these humanities courses, but the math course just slipped right by. It's 46 years of priest. Congratulations. What a wonderful, what a wonderful testimony. So before we begin, other kind of question about you as a counselor, did you always want to be a priest? Did you always want to be a Jesuit? 

Jerry Overbeck: Absolutely not. 

Al Gini: Really? 

Jerry Overbeck: No one in my family has ever done anything like this, been a nun or a priest or religious whatever. So for me, I fought it for a long time. 

Al Gini: Really. Now I see in your background, your educational background, a series of degrees from all over the place. But you did your undergraduate degree at Loyola. Did you do that as a Jesuit or did you do that as a layperson and then were introduced to the Jesuits? 

Jerry Overbeck: I did that as a Jesuit and because we had the the Jesuit training so emphasizes a broadly based liberal arts background, I ended up having like 200 and something semester hours for my bachelors. 

Al Gini: So in other words, you put in eight years in the space of about six. So you decided to enter the Jesuits when you were still in high school or when you were in college? 

Jerry Overbeck: Just as I was beginning college.  

Al Gini: And why the Jesuits? Had you been exposed to them in high school? 

Jerry Overbeck: Yeah, I got to become pretty close with a couple of the younger scholastics who were teaching at the high school I went to in Cincinnati, St Xavier, and in fact the summer that I entered, the one that was closest to came to me and said, I'm really happy to hear that you're going to join the Jesuits, but I want you to hear this from me. I'm leaving. 

Al Gini: Being a Jesuit now, of course, is longer than being a priest because you take certain vows along the way. What drew you to the Ignatian perspective on the priesthood? 

Jerry Overbeck: I think the reasons I entered and what drew me at to beginning were different from what in time I came to discover. Like in the beginning, I think it was my relationship with these Jesuits, especially the scholastics and seeing how their relationship with God with each other inspired them and motivated them. That really appealed to me. I think once I was in the order, I started to ask tougher questions like, but why Jesuit, why not Franciscan or why not Dominican or why not a diocesan priests? These guys are going to get ordained a lot sooner than I will.  

Al Gini: I know I flirted with the Dominicans and not because the Dominicanos, the dogs of heaven, but because they were order of preachers. And but I must admit, I work with the Jesuits in South Africa a great deal. There's wonderful order and Jo'burg. And they once had a dinner for me because I did a series of lectures for them and the camaraderie was so intense and so special. And I'm an older man and I've experienced a great deal of friendship in my life, but I never felt that bond. They really knew each other and loved each other in a very, very special way. So I do understand the tradition. And of course, the Jesuits always thought of themselves as the elitists along the way as well. But I do understand that. Now, let me go on a little bit more. I know that the Jesuits don't don't get to pick their jobs once the ordained don't pick where they're going to go. So how did you come to Loyola in Chicago? I mean, you had that undergraduate experience. That was your training. Why don't you wind up in Cleveland or New Orleans or Denver or D.C.? 

Jerry Overbeck: Well, that's a good question. Actually, the scuttlebutt on the streets in the Jesuits was that we'll never get him out of California, because I did a lot of my training out there. And as a priest, my first two years were at Santa Clara University. 

Al Gini: Santa Clara was just developing a real reputation when you were there, and it was considered a smaller school, probably known for its green grass as much as anything else. Remember that? But leaving California had to be tough for you personally. 

Jerry Overbeck: Well, yes and no. Yes, in the sense that because I was in my late twenties and you can imagine what it's like to be a priest, just like imagine what it's like to be married. It's another whole experience to actually be one and have people say in their own unique ways, Yeah, we want you to be our priest. And that changes me. And so I developed roots out there, friendships that have lasted 40 some years. So when I got asked by my provincial, Would you consider coming to Loyola, Chicago? My initial thought was, well, yes. Any good Jesuits should be open. Listening to where the greater needs are and as we discern together what that might look like. And from the very beginning, from when I was ordained to today, I've always done a combination of teaching and Campus Ministry.  

Al Gini: And research and publications.  

Jerry Overbeck: Yeah. That's part of when I say teaching I just mean the whole. I find the university life to be stimulating, thought provoking, bringing out some of the best in me to offer to other people. And so where the publication and the research comes from is, I think from my point of view, if my thinking is helpful, one way to get it out there is to publish books, ebooks, articles, whatever. And that way people I never even meet get access to my thinking. 

Al Gini: And the same thing in the classroom. What you do is, in effect, I think we're all witnesses in a classroom. It's not just the material. Paul Musburger. I don't know if you remember him he used to be the honors program, a wonderful guy. He once complimented me by saying, you're a salesman. You go in there and sell yourself and then you sell your product. And I think a good salesman does that. They don't walk in the room and say, Here, buy my nuts and bolts. They say, How are you? How is the family? What's going on? What and and I know you do this all the time. You sell that smile, and then you sell what you really believe in. And I think that's really critically important. And in fact, it's so important. You've done this wonderful publications. Why didn't you become a teacher full time? And then I ask you another question connected to that. Why didn't you move to the teaching aspect which so many of the graduates do with great success? 

Jerry Overbeck: Because I think the primary action is in the learner. And I think sometimes young people and I've worked with young adults my whole life. I think sometimes the best "classes," happen at Pippins and Cedars and Jake Melnick and in Starbucks, over coffee, over beers, and when the powertential is lessened. So I'm not holding anything over their head. They're not going to get a grade for our conversation. And so I find a lot of the learning occurs there, especially integrating classroom learning with life learning. 

Al Gini: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think any counselor tries to do. This is a theory. Freud said X, what does this mean in my life? Or whoever the person you're referring to? I have to ask a question along with the judges a little bit, because I'm fascinated. As you know, I've spent 51 years working for you guys. And by the way, my last paycheck was a little off. Could you work that out for me? And people have asked me, you know, how could you work for them? And it's a Catholic school. I said, well, it is a Catholic school, but it's a Jesuit school. And here's how I was able to work for them, because Jesuits ask their students, ask their fellow travelers to think, but they don't require them to think just like them. I get the feeling that you always hope that reason will out and they will all come closer to the same conclusion than that. But real dialogue, real debate is part of the the fabric of a Jesuit education. 

Jerry Overbeck: I think that's accurate.  

Al Gini: And part of the fabric of a counselor, and I want to move to this notion of counselor, I find it fascinating that you're a counselor and a chaplain. Those are really similar but distinct roles. And I think that they may come in conflict at times. But having said this, you've been on campus a long time. So how do you balance this role, this job of counselor and chaplain? How do you blend the two? 

Jerry Overbeck: Well, I started out presenting myself as a human being. 

Al Gini: Wow, what a concept. I never thought of that. 

Jerry Overbeck: Well, some people don't. I mean, I know, unfortunately, some priests get so behind their role as priest that they don't show any of their humanity. And I wear a collar sometimes, but a lot of times I don't. And when people will come over to me and say, Excuse me, are you Father J? Yeah, I am Jerry Overpeck. What's your name? Hi, Margie. Nice to meet you. And so I'm telling them right away that we're first human. I'm not just a role. So I try to meet them where they are and say, well, how can I help? I let them set the stage rather than my setting the stage. 

Al Gini: Yeah, I think that's really critical. And by the way, I think you wear a collar more on a regular basis than many of the contemporary Jesuits. Remember in the seventies and eighties it was hip not to wear it. But I also still think it's a brand and it says who you are. 

Jerry Overbeck: It is. And it's funny. I'm chaplain of the law school as well. And one of the things they will say to me, because they know sometimes I wear it, sometimes I don't. If I'm doing something for one of their events, they might say to me, By the way, would you mind wearing your collar? Sure. I don't care what I wear, really. It's just I try to gauge what I think will help people most. And they will say in response, it just gives it a little gravitas. 

Al Gini: Yeah, it does! And remember, at one point in the Jesuit history, you didn't wear anything because Jesuits were not particularly liked in various countries, so you went in normal garb. But I do think it's a symbol of who we are. Now, I want to ask, I forgot to ask you this initially. You're not just chaplain at Water Tower. We say that, but your job entails quite a few different colleges and quite a few professional groups. Could you talk about that? 

Jerry Overbeck: Sure. I focus on law and social work, but I'm aware that I'm in the middle of a community that has six different schools down here at the Water Tower campus. And I don't just sit there at Starbucks and say, oh, you're not in the law school, you're not in social work, can't talk to you. And plus, I'm not here just for students. And that's something I say to the students when I do these orientations. I care about you all, but not just you. So many of you have husbands and wives or partners. And that signals something to them when I throw in that other category. And I said, You have faculty here, and I'm here for them and staff and administrators. I'm here as 11 within this community. I'm not the only one helping people. But if I can be there for you in some way, I'm happy to do that. And by the way, there's alums, too. You may not know that. To be right in the middle of your stuff and not go, Oh, this is a big community. 

Al Gini: It is a big community. And I've sent a number of students to talk to you, you know, not under the rubric like in the Marines. You know, if you mentioned anything personal, the sergeant or the lieutenant will look at you, take that one to the chaplain because they don't want to deal with you. But in point of fact, that's your job. Hi. I don't want to talk about the D I'm getting in political science. I want to talk about why I'm getting a D, why I can't get involved in this. And that is part of your job. But I know you've been very generous in making that known to people. And I must say, I've been always touched. When I've sent a student to you, you send me a note saying, thank you for sending this person to me. I'll try to help them as much as I possibly can without guaranteeing a cure along the way. I think that's really wonderful. Now I want to ask about students themselves. All these different colleges, all these different constituencies. Do they come with the same kinds of problems or are they all different depending on the major or how old they are or what do they come to see you about in general, without giving away any particulars? 

Jerry Overbeck: It's such a range of areas to reflect on. It's usually somehow reflecting on their experience, which, as you know, in the Ignatian tradition, discernment is a big value. And so how do you discern you experience things, you reflect on it and try to see where the good spirit is and where the spirit that's not of God is. And then try to figure out next best steps. So most people come to me for perspectives and strategies. Got it. So they want to look at some area of their experience. And it could be self-image, it could be their faith, like what I believe or don't. And sometimes it starts out and what strikes me is humorous, and they're usually surprised that I find it funny if they'll start out by saying, like, Well, I don't think I believe in God. I say 'Okay. Do you want to talk about that? Or can we talk? I mean, just like I hope you respect what I believe, even if you don't agree with it, it's fair to say, 'Hey, pal, that goes two ways.' So, like, when I'm speaking at orientation, I will say you probably have noticed that your school of law is in the context of a Catholic Jesuit university. What does that mean? Well, a lot more than I can say in 5 minutes. But one of the things that means is that somebody like me is here. I am a Catholic priest, a Jesuit. Which doesn't mean that we only care for people who are Catholic. Or I'm going to try to force down your throat what I believe, but rather what I will try to do is respect, and encourage you on your own faith journey, whatever that is. And they'll say like, 'what happens if I say I don't believe in God?' I may not agree with you, but I still will respect you and encourage you to be true to the gifts you're given. 

Al Gini: And I think that's, again, part of this notion would like you to reason along the way, but we can't demand that you reason the same way. Now, when you were at Loyola in the seventies, in the sixties, what was going on around the country was a lot of stuff about Vatican two and something called Vietnam, I think, if I remember correctly, which now seems like a blurred image, although it was part of my life some 55 years ago, a very short part of my life, by the way. Very glad to say I was a conscientious coward. I got out of that--just easy, just teasing. But that's that was on campus. And I remember being on campus as a young professor when Kent State happened and how that happened. What's happening with undergraduates right now from your perspective, what are they concerned about politically? What are they concerned about? Of course, we're talking right now in an era of Black Lives Matters and these terrible, terrible things that are happening in our history and our social history. But what's going on in our campus right now? What are your feelings? 

Jerry Overbeck: That's definitely one of them. It's that broadening our biases, exposing them, looking at them and saying, where am I narrow? Where do I not even realize I'm sitting on privilege? Yeah, for people who've been burned by it, whatever it is from gender, from people of color, whatever the biases are, I find there's a ferment for looking at that, talking about that. Don't hide in your silence. 

Al Gini: And I think the politics right now is what's going on right now. Of course, we've had some movement in Chicago and some riots. We have a couple of our windows broken. And I'm as someone who's leaving education now after 51 years, I'm saddened by the fact that we haven't had more progress in certain things. And perhaps we had the privilege of being in this White Castle experience in academia and trying to be social justice. I neglected to say, besides asking people to reason, the Jesuit order, the Jesuit order has been concerned about social justice as a driving force, whether you're a Catholic or a Protestant or a Buddhist, as a driving force of the equity between individuals. And I think these are tough times for our undergraduates right now. I think they're confused in a very real sense. Let me add another aspect of confusion or ask about your experience. We started talking about this off mic before. How has COVID 19 crisis affected you right now and how people what are people asking of you right now? 

Jerry Overbeck: Yeah, that's a timely question. And certainly my life is busier than it has ever been and the issues are more serious. So I find that I can barely keep up with the availability I offer. While I don't find Zoom meetings, etc., to be as satisfying as in person meetings, that's the option right now. It's only beginning to open up. So now I'm starting to meet more people at the Newbury Park or take a walk with them with masks and physical distancing, etc. and Starbucks. But I am definitely busy and it can be everything from I just don't know if I can take it anymore. And I have to pursue that because sometimes people mean I'm thinking of suicide, right? And like I said off camera before, there have been several people I've helped get into Northwestern Psychiatric Hospital, their psychiatric unit, who were desperate and they needed help. So it can be that serious, too. It's just hard. It's hard to live like this. Life is different for all of us. And in some ways that's humbling to admit we don't have as much control as we often think we have, but we don't. It's not just you and me dealing with this. It's the whole world. 

Al Gini: And I think Luther was right on this one. Boredom is a motivating factor and vice and desperation. And I do think I'm finding people just antsy. They need to be thinking, I see that in my own family. I'm trying to say, calm down. We're lucky. Although we've had a couple of people with COVID, but they've survived, including the 90 year old, you know, my God, just wonderful. But boredom is this driving factor. And I think boredom may lead us, as we see in the news, to opening up too soon. And what does that mean? But I think boredom is not just the kid saying, I'm bored, Daddy. No, no, no. This is, I think, much deeper and something you have to deal with very carefully. 

Jerry Overbeck: Absolutely. I agree with that. And I'll tell you, I have been blessed with such good training and such good friends, peer friends and mentors, and honed the skills of asking for what I need from mentors and peers. But even with all of those resources, it's been harder on me than I thought it would be. 

Al Gini: Well, you're a people person, and when you can't dance with somebody, you know, you don't take rumba lessons virtually zoom wise. And you need to be in front of somebody. My daughter is a Loyola graduate, by the way, and an employee of Loyola at one time. My daughter has been had to be sequestered very carefully because she had some lung problems, so on and so forth. And it's hard not to kiss her, you know, it's hard not to hug somebody. And I think these are trying times in a very real way. Well, we almost have to go. But allow me to end on a personal note. Father Jerry, you know, for years I've started my day to day on campus with a cup of coffee at our local Starbucks. And without fail, four more years than I can remember sitting in the back of Starbucks very often writing, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, with a pen and paper, not on a computer or sitting, talking to sometimes the same person, sometimes many different persons is Father Jerry. And without fail, as I walk in almost, he's got a buzzer in the back of his head. Father Jerry raises his head, smiles and gives me a hello and a wave. And I must tell you, in retirement, I will miss that smile, Father Jerry. And thank you for it all these years. Thank you again for joining us today and my best to you. 

Jerry Overbeck: Thank you, Al. Good to be with you too. 

Speaker3: This has been an episode of the Q Talks podcast where we seek to marry the wisdom of the Quinlan community with the issues of today. Special thanks to our guests for their conversation and insight with additional thanks to Dean Kevin Stevens for his generous support of this project. Matt Smiley, our student producer for editing this episode, Loyola School of Communication and UW for their continued collaboration. Please take a minute to support us by rating and reviewing our episodes to help expand our reach. Thank you for listening and we hope you join us next time.