Episode 5

Race and Parenting

Transcript

Kevin Stevens: Welcome to the Q-Talks podcast as we launch a miniseries exploring critical issues of race and systemic injustice in business. I am Kevin Stevens, Dean of the Quinlan School of Business. Like you, I am sickened by the killing of George Floyd and the long history of systemic racism and violence of us directed towards the black community. I have spent much time listening and reflecting on what the Quinlan School of Business and I can do to move the world toward greater social justice. This podcast miniseries is just part of a list of concrete, measurable steps Quinlan has taken. This miniseries centers on the perspectives of black members of our community to explore critical issues. Please join us in these conversations and other Loyola and Quinlan initiatives as we seek to help end systemic racism.

Rick Sindt: I'm Rick Sindt and today I'm joined by a professor of supply chain management. Pettis Kent. Pettis, thank you for joining us.

Pettis Kent: Thank you, Rick.

Rick Sindt: So I'm going to start asking you the same question I've been asking other folks in this series, which is how are you perceiving and reflecting on our current moment in time?

Pettis Kent: I believe that finally, after numerous unwarranted murders of black people such as Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Philando Castile, Trayvon Martin, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd. People are both black and white they're fed up and they want changes in this country. MLK famously said in 1966 that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It's fatal to hear that Black Lives Matter and that there are fundamental issues with how black people are being treated by police versus our white counterparts and that the system needs to change. I think what's powerful in this moment is that it's not only black people protesting and asking for change, but it's white people, Hispanic people and others trying to work towards change. And I think it's also important that this is not just impacting how we think about the way black people are being treated from a policing standpoint. But it's also having ripple effects and some halo effect into other parts of society, be it the way we're depicted in media, the way we are treated in business and corporate America, etc.. And so hopefully this moment leads to a deepening change. It's a change that's that we've needed for many, many years. This murder of George Floyd really hit home for me because I spent a lot of years in Minnesota. I got my PhD at University of Minnesota. My son still lives there. This happened about a mile away from his school. So this really, really touched me. And I still think about that video often, the George Floyd video when he's being murdered by that policeman. And so it definitely drives me to want to do my part to see what we can do to make this change more concrete and make it more long lasting.

Rick Sindt: Can you recall other moments in your life when you were catalyzed action or witnessed other people being catalyzed to action in a similar way to today?

Pettis Kent: Yes, there are a few moments in my life. One, when I was at a student at Florida A&M University in Tallahassee. This was my last year in school. So this was the 1999 2000 school year. And Jeb Bush, the brother of George W Bush and the son of George H.W. Bush, was the governor of Florida. And he was trying to pass, he successfully passed an initiative called the One Florida Initiative, which essentially struck down affirmative action for government contracts and for school admissions. And so the students at Florida A&M, we were of course, outraged by this because we felt like this was going to fundamentally change the access we would have to education and are more so now we but the people coming behind us and so we did a march to the capital. This was in the spring of 2000, and we knew that this was a politically motivated move, but this was also consistent with his policies at the time. And so I remember feeling as if, you know, this is the type of action that requires us to be active. We would at school, we would we learned about the history of bus boycotts and pass Florida A&M students being active. And so this was our time to be active and we took full advantage of it. I mean, we at least let our voice be heard. He delivered this new rule by executive order, and he had a majority in the Florida House and Senate. And so it was pushed through. And, you know, 20, 20 years later, it has reduced the number of African Americans as a percentage of the total students in Florida state schools. And so it's had the impact that we were afraid it would have, but at least we were active. Another time that I witnessed some action like this was after I left Florida A&M. I was in Cincinnati, Ohio, working for Proctor and Gamble. I started there in June of 2000, and the following spring, in April, there was a young man, 19 year old named Timothy Thomas, who had gotten shot and killed by the police, Cincinnati police, for what amounted to about a dozen traffic citations. So nothing violent. The community was outraged. And there were about four or five days of civil unrest in April of 2001. And that was also what started, what ended up being a boycott of Cincinnati. And so black people, black organizations, if you were part of an organization like, for example, I was part of the NAACP at the time, we were not going to spend money in downtown Cincinnati until we received some reforms to with how police interact with the community. It ended up costing the city roughly $10 Million was the estimate, and we were able to get some police reforms with how they interacted with the community. So it was a small win. Of course, it wouldn't bring back the life of Timothy Thomas, but it was still good to see that our action again led to some change and then third in 2013. After Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman was acquitted. So I believe he was acquitted in April of 2000 or I'm sorry, July of 2013. Their friend and frat fraternity brother of mine, Phil Agnew, and his organization, Dream Defenders, created a sit in at the Florida capital to get the attention of the governor, who was Rick Scott at the time. And the goal was to hopefully drive Rick Scott to have a special session to talk about the stand your ground law and perhaps overturn it. Rick Scott didn't want to do that, but we were able to get some concessions along the way and they were there for 30 days, 30, 31 days. And that was that was it got national attention. And I was very proud of a friend, Phil Agnew, who led this effort. And again, it showed that at least when we organize and we do it in a peaceful way and we are serious about what we want, we can at least let our voice be heard. So I would say those three.

Rick Sindt: You mentioned going to Florida A&M, which is a historically black college and or university in this case. Why was going to an HBCU, was it important to you and what impact did it have on your life?

Pettis Kent: Well, I'll be honest, I really wasn't thinking about going to an HBCU until maybe my junior year in high school. My mom went to an HBCU. She went to Prairie View A&M, which is in Texas. But that still didn't have the biggest influence on me going to Florida A&M. What ended up having a huge influence was the fact that my next door neighbor, his name was Mr. Greer. Mr. Greer had two kids who were older than my brother and I by about eight or nine years. So they had already gotten through college by the time I was thinking about my college decision in high school. Billy Greer, his son, and his daughter, Andrea Greer. They went to HBCU. Billy Greer went to Florida A&M. Andrea went to Hampton. So those were the two HBCUs I applied to because Billy Greer had gotten out in his career and was doing really well. And I started talking more and more with other graduates of HBCUs, and I found that this is a place where you can receive all of the opportunities you want, but also be in a nurturing culture. And I'll say that was definitely the best decision I made when I got to Florida A&M. Which again, before I got there, I had never been in the state of Florida at all. But once I got there, I immediately felt like I was at home. This was a place where I could I felt like I could be myself. I felt like I was nurtured. I was educated on my history, the history of my people and my culture. And. I would say that it was a the first time I felt like I was in a psychologically safe environment psychologically. Psychological safety is a term that was coined by a professor at Harvard, Amy Edmondson. And it's just this idea that you feel free to be yourself, to offer ideas without fear of retribution or judgment. And that was the first time I really felt like I was in an environment where I could bring my full self. And I've met a number of lifelong friends that I'm still close to, and it definitely launched my career because from there I was able to start at Procter and Gamble.

Rick Sindt: Part of my educational background is a diversity and inclusion certificate from Cornell. And during that process. Psychological Safety was driven home as one of the main important tenets and pillars to building an inclusive and welcoming environment for diversity. And so you mentioned having that psychological safety while you're at A&M, but you've gone on to other schools and worked other places. And I imagine that psychological safety wasn't always present. So how do you perceive your professional life and how do you perceive the difference between your professional life and the things you handle as compared to your white colleagues?

Pettis Kent: Sure. And you're right. I mean, psychological safety is so important. And I think about that even when I'm teaching class today, I think about making sure that everyone feels like their voice can be heard and that there's no such thing as a bad question or a bad answer. If the environment in my class that everyone can feel safe. So I totally agree with what you're saying in terms of your question. I would say that it's interesting in America, at least again, for the black community, it's as you continue to ascend in whatever your vocation, there are at least most vocations. So business, academia, government, there tends to be fewer and fewer people who look like you. And so this dynamic breeds a level of isolation that definitely has an impact on us. And it definitely had an impact on me. So whether I was at Procter and Gamble those 12 years or after that at University of Minnesota getting my PhD, I was always one of a very few number of black people. Now, I think both of those organizations and I think Loyola does a good job of this as well. There were at least outlets where we could congregate with our affinity group. So whether it was black people in supply chain or black people in advertising or what have you, there were a number of ways that we could at least network. And at the University of Minnesota, of course, there was a black student union. But then I also was able to stay close to the PhD project, which is an organization started by KPMG about 25 years ago, that helps promote underrepresented minorities achieving their PhDs in business. And so I've been able to find affinity groups and ways to find community. But if we just think of the organization at large, there is usually not a feeling of, Hey, I'm, I feel like I'm just I'm treated like everyone else. I usually have to go and find that subgroup of people. And I would imagine I know my friends would say the same thing. And I would imagine students even at Loyola would say that they feel like they have to find that subgroup of people to make them feel like they're part of a community. And so I think that's a challenge for all of us, especially faculty and staff, to try to figure out ways to make the environment more welcoming, because there's definitely this feeling of isolation. And when you have that feeling of isolation and you almost feel like you're living two separate lives, you have this live life that you live at work or in school in front of the people who may not look like you. And then you have this other life that you live with, your family and friends and your church environment or your organizations that you're a part of outside of school or work. And it's a shame that. Again, my experience and the experience of people I've talked with, black people I talk with. It's a shame that people don't feel like they can bring their full self to work or to school or what have you. And going back to my answer about HBCUs, I think that's why that was such a valuable experience for many people who went to HBCUs because they felt like, okay, everything I want to do, be it socially, be it academically, be it spiritually, I can get it here. And not to say that in corporate America you're able to fulfill every need, be it spiritual or have you, but you should be able to feel like you can bring more of yourself to work. And so that's a challenge that definitely I've I've dealt with all my career.

Rick Sindt: How do you cope with these experiences? Obviously, one way that you've already mentioned is by finding sub communities, but are there other tactics or behaviors you've had to use to adapt to these environments? And what do you think are the rippling effects or unintended consequences of environments being built this way?

Pettis Kent: Right. So again, having a strong support network, I mean, my friends, family, fraternity brothers, organizations like the PhD project have been important. My son, my girlfriend, I mean, folks who are close to me and who are able to to to listen to me vent or if I'm frustrated or doubting myself, folks that I can turn to. Over the years that's been hugely important and continues to be important. I think that I'm also an optimistic person, so I always try to look at the glass half full and I always think of try to think of ways that I can positively impact the environment. And so I don't necessarily just accept the environment as it is. I try to get active and say, okay, if I'm feeling this way, why don't I get involved so that perhaps another person will feel this way. And so that's why I've always tried to do volunteering with high school students, with some college students, I've already started mentoring them here at Loyola, especially with the black students I come across that I know there's not many of them. I'll take a little extra effort to make sure they know I'm there as a resource. And so I think the watch out if you're not, the unintended consequences of not being able to have that support network, not being able to have that that safety net, if you will, is that you could fall through the cracks. You could be less than successful in an environment where if you just would have had that support, you could have been successful. And so I've seen it happen where someone perhaps you're far away from home or maybe they're homesick and they didn't have someone to turn to or someone to talk to or someone to relate to. And then they ended up leaving school because they just didn't have that affinity group of people leaving the company because they didn't feel like they were being heard or they had a bad manager-subordinate relationship. And so I think it is up to folks who have some power to have some authority to be very mindful that that could be happening within their sphere of influence and hopefully do something to make everyone feel welcome. Make everyone feel important.

Rick Sindt: You mentioned earlier that you're spending the summer in Minneapolis and that you're there with your son. How has this, the killing of George Floyd and everything that's followed, how has it impacted how your parent?

Pettis Kent: Yes. I've been here since mid-March with a distance learning, and it's definitely been an opportunity for me to continue the conversation. My son is 13 now, and unfortunately, I've had to have this conversation with him for several years now, just talking about the dynamics of America and how racism can work or does work, whether it's in school or out in the general world. And so this was another reminder because I had a conversation with him when he was nine, when Philando Castile was shot and killed here in the Twin Cities. And so this was just another reminder of we're not living in a post-racial society. I mean, I've always tried to speak truth into my son and not sugarcoat anything. I mean, we watched PBS, the PBS series Eyes on the Prize when he was in fourth or fifth grade. And that chronicled, among other things, the civil rights movement. And it was very graphic, it was very truthful about what happened in the fifties and sixties. And so I've had this conversation with him, and this was just unfortunately another opportunity to continue the conversation and to help him understand how the world is working today, but hopefully how this can be a gateway to change happening in the future and why that change is important. But, you know, my uncle, I have an uncle, my favorite uncle lives in Kansas City. And I remember him calling me a couple of days after the George Floyd murder, and he asked if I had had the talk with my son. And I knew exactly what that talk was. And that's the talk around here's how you have to interact with police if they approach you, because now he's starting to be a little bit more independent, riding his bike around neighborhoods, that type of thing. So I've had this talk with him and over the last couple of years, and this was just another opportunity to remind him that it's not the same. I mean, he has white friends and black friends, and I had to help him understand that the way the system is currently, he's not looked at the same as his white friends, unfortunately, even though he sees them as being equal to each other, and his friends see him as equal, the broader culture necessarily doesn't see him that way. So it's unfortunate that you have to have that conversation. But again, it's I wouldn't be a good parent if I wasn't having these discussions. And it's an ongoing exchange.

Rick Sindt: I grew up in Minnesota, too. I and I'm a white man from an all-white family and from an ostensibly all white town. I can tell you that the names of the three black people who went to school with me, so my parents and I, we never had a race talk. It just wasn't a thing that existed for me. Do you have any advice for parents on how they should have these conversations with their children?

Pettis Kent: Yeah, well, for sure. Like I just mentioned, definitely tell the truth. I feel I would rather my son and I would hope most parents would rather have their kids hear the truth from them than to have to go out and find out the truth somewhere else. So I'd rather give the full truth to my son. And I would recommend any other parent, whether they're black or white, do the same thing. And again, it's not meant to say this is how it's it always has to be going forward, but let's at least honor where we are. You know, until you honor where you are, you can't then say, okay, how do we improve it? And so I like to talk to my son about the history of America, how it's been for black people since we first arrived in 1619, and how it's been over these 401 years and how slavery by another name has been continuing since 1863. And here we are today. Yes. Has it gotten better? Sure it has. But do we still have a long way to go? Yes, we do. And so I think without giving that texture to our kids, we're really doing them a disservice. And that's actually why I started getting involved probably four or five years ago with the way. African American history was taught in my son's school here in Minneapolis. I used to just see kind of this broad brush approach of like we arrived in 1619. The Emancipation Proclamation happened in 1863, Civil Rights Act of 1965 or 1964, then Barack Obama. It's like, whoa, wait a minute. We've done there's been a lot more. And I love Barack Obama and Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks, but there's been a lot more contributions made by black Americans over the years. And so I like to give the full spectrum to my son and then now his classmates, because he's the only black kid in his class or one of, I think two in his class. And so now they're learning about folks that don't necessarily shoot a basketball or dance and sing. It's like we're mathematicians, we're businessmen and women. We made a lot of contributions. And until you educate folks on all of the contributions of what we're doing, black people have done through the past. And now there will continue to be this segment of population who sees black Americans as being inferior. And we're not. And it's like we didn't just start contributing. You know, we've been contributing in every war that's happened over the years. We've done a lot here. So that goes into all of the discussions that I have with my son. And I think he's starting to get a really good 360 idea of what the world is and some of this he's going to experience on his own. But I don't want him to get out into the world and be like, Whoa, Dad, why didn't you tell me it was this intense or this crazy? Or it's like, No, you're going to hear it from me. And so I would recommend that to any parent, whether they have kids who are exposed to black people or not, to just tell them the truth and tell them this is one of these original sins of this country is slavery. And then how we've continued to treat black people.

Rick Sindt: Yeah. That's great. I was going to ask you to do a little emotional labor for us white folks and ask if you have any tips or tricks for white parents talking to their kids. But you kind of touched on that already.

Pettis Kent: Well, you know, it's funny because every year, especially when he was in third or fourth grade, I would ask his teacher during Black History Month or no, I'd start with no one. I'd say, So what are they teaching you? And he would always say something to the effect of Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Barack Obama. And it's like. I love those guys. I promise you I do. But we're so much more than just those five or six people. And so I've been very active in trying to not only reach my son, but reach perhaps the white kids who don't hear about the good things that black people have done at home. So. So. Yeah.

Rick Sindt: I also think a lot about in my education. In some ways it was a little better than most. Like I remember my junior year of high school, my teacher had us watch the movie Amistad, which is like a very graphic depiction of the slave trade system. But also at the same time, it was very much Martin Luther King, Barack Obama. He became president at the end of my high school year, but it was Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks and all that. And even the omissions that were made for the time period that we were covering like. Like, Yeah, Malcolm X existed, but like, we don't have to learn about him and yeah. Huey Newton like Black Panthers, but like, just know the Black Panthers, like, they were there and now they're not. Yeah, it's but really, it is a very rich history of contributions. Like, from my understanding, the Black Panthers are why we have free school lunches today because of the community support system that they set up.

Pettis Kent: Well, what I see and what I like about having that conversation, you can talk about how just in the names you name, you can talk about how even within our community we were struggling with how best do we reach where we want to get to. Clearly, the Black Panthers were saying, you know what, Martin Luther King, he's cool, but this nonviolent stuff. No, we need to get our get in arms and we need to demand our freedom. And, you know, you could find points from both of them that were really on point. And so I think I think that's what I love about opening that conversation is you can say, you know, there's no there is no one consensus on how we should get there. Now, I do believe that Martin Luther King probably showed the most results. I think it was powerful. That nonviolent approach was powerful. But I could also argue that and I think Martin Luther King, even in that quote I mentioned. He implicitly said, you know what, riots are going to happen if you're not listening to what this community has to say. You know, and so I think he was if he would see what was happening, I'm sure he wouldn't want the looting and the physical harm of people who are having to be in the protest or what have you. But he would say, you know what? Yeah. This is a natural outgrowth when you ignore what's happening to a certain part of the community. So I definitely think that as we continue to have this education, this dialogue, I love the fact that Loyola and Quinlan and you guys are doing this because this is what we need. We need more conversations like this to hopefully keep the dialogue going here.

Rick Sindt: Well, Pettis, it was really wonderful to talk to you today. Do you have any parting words of wisdom you'd like to leave us with?

Pettis Kent: I would say I'm hoping that--you asked in the first question, what do I think about this moment? And I hope that it can transition from a moment to a movement and that we aren't looking back a year from now and saying, you know, we should have done more to bring about systemic change. I like what I'm seeing so far. And I like the fact that there's folks other than the black community who are being very active. We need that. When Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement was happening, you always saw people from other communities holding hands with Martin Luther King and the other black people who were protesting. And that was necessary to bring about the change the Freedom Riders of the 1950s and sixties. Mostly white. I mean, certain trips, certain freedom rides that they made. And so we need to continue to bring each other together, build each other up. Check on your black coworker or your black classmate if you have a relationship or somewhat of a relationship. I know professors have checked in on me to see how I was doing. That means a lot. I mean, that is...I think sometimes we think too much about, well, what will the person think if I ask? It's like the fact that someone just says, thinking of you, I hope you're doing okay. It's not like you have to go in depth with that person, but just to let them know that they're not alone is important. Because remember, like I mentioned around that isolation, we want to feel like we're a part of something, you know, and we want to feel like we're a part of this community. That's why we try to get into these schools that we know we may only be one of 100. That's why we go to try and work at these really good universities for academia or really good corporations, because we want to be a part of something good, something great. So. So yeah.

Rick Sindt: Great. Thank you again. It was a pleasure. I'm really glad we had this conversation.

Pettis Kent: Yeah. Thank you very much, Rick.

Rick Sindt: This has been an episode of the Q Talks podcast where we seek to marry the wisdom of the Quinlan community with the issues of today. Thanks again to Pettis Kent for contributing to the conversation. Listeners who are interested in diving deeper are encouraged to read the book Slavery by Another Name by author Douglas Blackmon, review the documentary 13th on Netflix. Additional thanks goes out to Dean Kevin Stevens for his generous support of this project. Mat Shiley, our student producer for editing this episode. Loyola's School of Communication and WLUW for their continued collaboration. Please take a minute to support us by rating and reviewing our episodes to help expand our reach. Thank you for listening and we hope you join us next time.